1: "The Winchesters" - A New Series & A New Project

The Fangirl Business is BACK with a new episode teasing their new project: the upcoming series, The Winchesters.

Welcoming listeners both old and new, Catherine and Chrisha discuss how their previous season, which followed the highs and lows of Supernatural's Season 15, is informing their current project.  With a longer episode to come before The Winchesters' premiere, they briefly examine both their concerns about the new series and what made them decide to give it a try. 

Follow us on Twitter @TheFangirlBiz and on Bluesky @thefangirlbiz.bsky.social

Join our Kofi Discord community at $1/month: https://ko-fi.com/thefangirlbiz/tiers

Support our podcast by buying our new merch: https://www.redbubble.com/people/thefangirlbiz/shop

Thanks for listening!

Transcript

S2 E01: A New Series & A New Project

Disclaimer:
Welcome to The Fangirl Business, a Supernatural podcast. The information presented in this podcast is intended to be for entertainment and educational purposes only. It should never be used in place of advice given by a mental health or medical professional, or as a substitute for mental health treatment. If you are struggling with a mental health issue, please seek treatment from a mental health professional in your area.

Intro Instrumental Rock Music:
“Play the Game” by VooDoo Blooze

Chrisha:
Hello, and welcome to this episode of The Fangirl Business. 

Catherine:
I'm Catherine. 

Chrisha:
And I'm Chrisha. And today we are back―

Catherine:
Whoo!

Chrisha:
―with a new project! It's been a long time. It's weird sitting in front of a microphone again.

Catherine:
Yeah, it's a new project. And I think we're going to do it as a new season. 

Chrisha:
Mmhmm.

Catherine:
So we'll have an official season two. *chuckles*

Chrisha:
How about that? It's about time. 

Catherine:
Yeah, right?! 

*both laugh*

Chrisha:
So yeah, we are back to talk about The Winchesters which premieres in October and is the prequel to Supernatural, talking about John and Mary and their quote unquote love story. We'll see what that looks like. So today, we're kind of here to do a quick introduction for those who maybe don't know us, or for those who have known us for a while, to sort of introduce this new project that we're going to start that's going to have―I don’t know―similar vibes to before, but maybe slightly jaded. Um―

*both laugh*

Chrisha:
―slightly jaded approach. 

*both continue to laugh*

Catherine:
I mean―

Chrisha:
Just being honest.

Catherine:
Who can blame us, right?

Chrisha:
*laughs* So for those who have not been with us in the past, we started this podcast … oh my God, when was it? 

Catherine:
So it was the fall of 2019. In September.

Chrisha:
Ohhhh, the Before Times.

Catherine:
Yeah, right?

Chrisha:
So, so long ago. It was right when they announced the final season of Supernatural―that season 15 was going to be the last season. And so in sort-of coping with the grief of that, and seeing the fandom dealing with that grief, we wanted to sort of podcast through it. I think it started as wanting to process feelings that were more fandom related?

Catherine:
Mmhmm.

Chrisha:
And then it sort of adapted to be watching the show week to week and doing some analysis there. 

Catherine:
Yeah. 

Chrisha:
And we did that all the way through season 15. And then it ended.

Catherine:
*snorts* Yeah. 

*both pain laugh*

Catherine:
And we were traumatized for like two years. 

Chrisha:
Yeah!

Catherine:
To be fair, I think we're still traumatized. 

*both continue to laugh*

Chrisha:
Yeah, we did, um―how many hours, do you want to say, of podcasting related to the finale? Trying to unpack it, and―

Catherine:
Oh, good Lord.

Chrisha:
―understand it, and process the trauma related to it?

Catherine:
There were four episodes, and each of them were over an hour long. 

Chrisha:
Mmhmm.

Catherine:
When we did the analysis episode we marathoned it. So like, what came out as three episodes in the end? We just did in one long marathon session, and I think we ended at like five o'clock in the morning for me. 

Chrisha:
Yeah.

Catherine:
Four for you?

Chrisha:
That was a long night. So since then, we haven't really done much with the podcast. And I think that a lot of that is because we just got burned by it. 

Catherine:
Yeah.

Chrisha:
I mean, doing those episodes on the finale, it wasn't fun. You know, it wasn't enjoyable, it was hard. And leading up to that, you know, when we were going through season 15―it was a great time. 

Catherine:
Yeah.

Chrisha:
We did analysis of the episodes, but we also did subtext analysis of Destiel―

Catherine:
Mmhmm.

Chrisha:
―which was just so much fun, digging into that and playing in that sandbox. And so I think when we talk about this new project with The Winchesters … it's complicated, you know? Feelings are complicated. Our approach, I think, is going to be slightly different just because we felt so … um, sure? When we were going through season 15, that it was going in a certain direction, and then took a hard left and shook our confidence pretty hard, I would say.

Catherine:
Absolutely. I remember the first thing I felt after the end of the finale was, “Oh, my God, we've let people down. We thought it was going one way and it's gone another way.” That was a pretty awful feeling. And I think we're, we're trying not to have that happen again. So we'll definitely be doing less theorizing with this upcoming show, and anything that we do hopefully people can take with a grain of salt. Because we don't know, we're just trying to make informed guesstimates. But we could be totally wrong. And I think the other thing that we learned doing our season 15 podcast was that decisions in television making sometimes make no sense.

Chrisha:
Mmhmm!

Catherine:
Because it would have made more sense for things to play out the way that we thought that they would. But, um … they abandoned all sense of logic and reason. 

*both laugh*

Catherine:
And just took a hard left turn, and nothing made sense. So I think going into this one, we will have more of an awareness that television can do really weird, dumb stuff, that makes no sense.

Chrisha:
Yeah, pretty much. 

Catherine:
Yeah. I’m sorry. *laughing* I’m just like, “THIS IS SO CYNICAL!” 

Chrisha:
No, that's where we are. And I mean, I guess to add a little bit of background for each of us: So I'm a mental health therapist. I have a PhD in human behavior. And then Catherine, you have a Master's degree in English Lit. And so we're very academic in our approach to these things. And, you know, to be clear, I'm not here in this podcast as an expert to talk about “academic stuff.” *puts on a fake posh accent*

Catherine:
*in a similar accent* No. *chuckles*

Chrisha:
*resuming normal speech* You know, I'm just here to play in the sandbox, you know? It's just that our academic background sort of informed the way that we approach things and the knowledge base that we have. 

Catherine:
Yes.

Chrisha:
I think we have a lot of concerns going into The Winchesters, I think it's safe to say, for a wide variety of reasons. For me, by and large, it's John Winchester.

Catherine:
Yeah. 

Chrisha:
That's the biggest concern. Like, there's also The CW and my lack of trust in them. But having a story framed around John, who I see as abusive and neglectful as a parent―putting him in a role where it certainly seems like we're supposed to see him in a positive light? Um … got some concerns about that.

Catherine:
Yeah. And I think also the rhetoric surrounding John from people like Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Jensen Ackles is part of my concern. Because in the show, John is portrayed in a pretty negative light. They allude to physical abuse in several episodes; there's emotional abuse, there's neglect of children, there's making one of his kids basically be a parent to the other. But outside of the show, the rhetoric from both Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Jensen Ackles has been very positive. So I have concerns about how Jensen―particularly as the person who's brought this story to our screens―how he may see the character of John differently than we do.

Chrisha:
Yeah, I feel like Jensen goes back and forth a little bit. I feel like sometimes he really understands the negative impact that John had on Dean. But then other times, he frames it differently. And I tend to be on the same page as Jensen, I feel like, most of the time when it comes to talking about Dean.

Catherine:
Right. 

Chrisha:
And this is one place where I often give a little side eye to some of his answers. And so that raises some concerns for me.

Catherine:
I think the other part of the concern that I have is: The CW does have a really long history of screwing over characters of color, and LGBTQ+ characters. So, I'm concerned about that. And I'm also concerned about the fact that it's got new conservative ownership, which was something that a different showrunner tweeted about a while ago, and then deleted. *chuckles* So that's a concern, given the fact that we know that one of the main characters is bisexual man. There's also a lot of stuff going on in the wider industry right now. 

Chrisha:
Yeah.

Catherine:
There are problems with Warner Brothers with that Discovery Plus merger, and that seems to be having a huge impact. I don't think I've ever seen as many creatives who are upset who are in the industry, as I have with this. And there's also the wider trend towards canceling shows after one season, which I think everybody finds pretty perplexing and … unsettling, I guess. The other thing is retcons. 

Chrisha:
Yeah. Big concern. 

Catherine:
Yeah. What are your thoughts?

Chrisha:
You know, Jensen keeps telling us to trust the process, and that he understands canon, and that he and Robbie Thompson―who's the showrunner for The Winchesters―they understand it, they acknowledge it, they've got it. And I appreciate that he is telling us that. On the other hand, this is a show about John Winchester. So I just don't … I don't know how to feel entirely comfortable, you know?

Catherine:
Yeah. And, you know, the idea that John knew all along that there were monsters? The Men of Letters stuff? 

Chrisha:
Yeah.

Catherine:
I mean, I'm hoping that they do it in a way that feels organic and authentic, but … we don't know.

Chrisha:
Yeah. So obviously, we have a lot of … concerns. There’s a lot of fears, anxieties … Especially after the way that the primary show ended, in such a way that just was really painful for lots of us. But there are some things that we are potentially excited about. And I guess in sort of introducing ourselves, we didn't really necessarily get into the fact that we really are a Destiel positive podcast, and we love Destiel probably an unreasonable amount, I feel like it's safe to say?

Catherine:
*chuckles*

Chrisha:
Just looking at Dean and Cas’s faces all over my walls, just like yep, and there's yep, there they are again, yep, yep, yep.

Catherine:
Same. 

*both laugh*

Catherine:
They’re everywhere. 

Chrisha:
Yeah. So having Cas be kind-of erased from the last two episodes was, I don't know, excruciating. It was just incredibly painful. And so that's something that we bring forward, too―not that we have expectations. I mean, hopes that there are nods, that there are things that bring Cas somewhat back into the story. At least to acknowledge his existence.

Catherine:
Yeah, that would be nice.

*both laugh*

Chrisha:
That would be great. But ultimately, for me, the thing I'm most excited about, honestly, is just being able to play in the sandbox again. To have possibilities again To have even a glimmer of hope again. Because the last two years have felt, from a Supernatural standpoint, fairly hopeless. It just … it ended and it was bleak. And there you go.

Catherine:
Yeah. And then the next thing we heard was that *laughs* the new show was gonna be about John Winchester.

Chrisha:
*sighs deeply*

Catherine:
And we were both like, “Noooooooo. No.” *laughs*

Chrisha:
Why? Just, why? Whyyyyyyy?

Catherine:
Exactly. Nobody wants to know about John.

*both pain laugh*

Chrisha:
Oh, GOD. Ahhhh, it's been a rough couple years. 

Catherine:
Yeah, it's been―yeah, it has been. But I think for me, too, definitely the thing that I'm most excited about is that we have possibilities again. And everything about the finale made it feel final. 

Chrisha:
Yeah. 

Catherine:
There were no more possibilities. We didn't even get a chance to think about alternate worlds, because all the alternate worlds were destroyed. We didn't get to think about them living out the rest of their lives, because they were dead. You know? So it felt like all of the possibilities were kind of taken away from us. And now that we have space, and we have things like time traveling, it feels like there's possibility again. And that's, I think, what I've missed most. So even though they've gone back in time, I think there's so much potential to do so many different things that I get excited about that. And the other big part is that they've got a male lead, set in the 1970s, who is openly bisexual. That's very exciting.

Chrisha:
Obviously, we are Destiel positive, but we are also people that, Destiel aside, seeing Dean Winchester as bisexual is something that's deeply personal and deeply important to both of us. 

Catherine:
Yeah.

Chrisha:
And we didn't get to see Dean come out, which was really, really difficult. So we have a show about John Winchester. *wah wah* But then when they were very specific and purposeful that one of the leads is a bisexual man? It was like, “Oh, okay. Okay.”  So it feels like they're doing something with that. Whether it relates to Dean or whether it's just a nod to try to give us representation that we have begged for for a gajillion years in the Supernatural fandom. 

Catherine:
Yeah.

Chrisha:
I'm excited to see it. I'm excited to see where it goes. 

Catherine:
Me too. 

Chrisha:
And like, Dean f***ing Winchester! We get him back on our TV. 

*both laugh*

Chrisha:
I get to see my Baby with the hair, and the Purgatory clothes, and―okay, we'll get into that. But just … *emotionally* Dean, he's back.

Catherine:
I think part of the reason that that resonates so much is because it did feel so final in the ending, and it was so excruciating the way that he died and then the isolation that he had in heaven. Now we can see him. He's doing something that's really purposeful. We'll talk about that more in our actual episode that we're going to be releasing soon. I'm very excited to just see him and hear him. And it's such a weird thing because, like, we've seen Jensen everywhere.

Chrisha:
*bursts out laughing* Literally everywhere. 

Catherine:
I know! Like, he's all over the place, doing The Boys and doing Big Sky. But we haven't seen Dean. And that's different.

Chrisha:
Mmhmm. Seeing Dean with his own journal, instead of John's, getting ready to write his own story. That was the hook. That's what got me. I was like, “Okay.” In a greater context of the show, where it's all about who controls the narrative? I was like, “Ahh, fine! All right, I'm in, let's go.”

*both laugh*

Catherine:
I'm really excited about that, for sure. 

Chrisha:
I know. 

Catherine:
And he won't be in every episode, in terms of seeing him, but all of it will be through his perspective, which will be very exciting. Do you want to talk a little bit about what's coming next for our podcast?

Chrisha:
Yeah, our lives right now are a lot―as most people's are. 

Catherine:
Mmhmm.

Chrisha:
And we don't know what's going to happen with the show. I think right now, it's picked up for 13 episodes, but they aren't sure if they're going to, you know, go past that. But in terms of the podcast, I think we are going to do another full episode before the show begins to kind of more deeply look at what we have now. There's a variety of trailers, some stills, that give us a lot to play with, a lot to think about. Much to discuss! 

Catherine:
Mmhmm!

Chrisha:
So we're going to do that. And then once the show is airing, and it premieres October 11th, we're gonna try to kind of go back to the format that we had―hopefully, slightly more reined in than what we had with Supernatural was on! Oh Lord, we were doing like three episodes a week. That was nuts! 

Catherine:
Yeah. 

Chrisha:
But we are going to try to have an episode week talking about what's going on the show. We’lll probably focus, I think, on queer themes, and Dean. You know, like, what all of the things that we're learning mean, in context of Dean and our main story. But then again, we don't know what we're gonna get. We just know we're gonna talk about it. We're gonna see where it goes. And I think that we're really trying to go in with minimal expectations, and just taking it as it comes.

Catherine:
That's right: very low key, in terms of what we're expecting. But I think one of the things that I'm really excited about too, is doing this with you again, because I've missed it. And I've missed spending this time with you. And also reconnecting with our listeners again, because we have great listeners. 

Chrisha:
We really do. 

Catherine:
Yeah, and so I think interacting with people in that way again will be lovely as well. 

Chrisha:
Yeah!

Catherine:
So hello, listeners! We've missed you!

Chrisha:
Hiiiiii!!!!!

Catherine:
*laughs* All right. I think that that's where we'll wrap it for today. 

Chrisha:
Mmhmm!

Catherine:
You can message us and stay up to date with the latest on our Twitter page, which is @TheFangirlBiz, that's B-I-Zee or B-I-Zed, depending on where you live in the world. We will see you again soon. And until then, carry on, Wayward Friends. We love you! Bye! 

Chrisha:
Bye!

Outro Instrumental Rock Music:
“Play the Game” by VooDoo Blooze

Outtake:

Catherine:
*giggles* I forgot the, “Bye!” *cackles*